Topic: CD Article: 2007 Lexus GS 450h

[Autos_Editor]

First Drive:

With better performance, fuel economy and emissions than V8-powered competitors, the new Lexus GS 450h gas-electric hybrid sedan is aiming to redefine the mid-sized luxury performance sedan market, says Editor Greg Wilson.  The technology is impressive, but there are some trade-offs, he says.      More...

[G0dspd]

It was featured on Fifth Gear recently ... a very nice "green" cruiser IMO.

[jww]

Lexus simply make phenomenal vehicles --- period. Like the looks, like the features, like the 'green-ness'. Heck I like the entire package and if I had $80K to put into a car, this would be the one.

jww

[a4_tom]

I would like to see a comparo between GS450h vs E320 Bluetec, for overall efficiency and value.

[DriverJeff]

Greg Wilson writes: "the new GS 450h is not only faster than its competitor's V8-powered luxury sedans..."

According to the July issue of Road &Track wherein they compare the GS450h to the 550i, the Bimmer was quicker, faster and the all-round far more sporting machine.

And despite the impressive torque figures, the CVT apparently is very slow to react making it feel less impressive than the torque should otherwise feel. 

In addition to the higher initial cost, you've also got sacrifice significant trunk space too and, given it's supposed to be a sport sedan, I wonder how much real-world savings the Hybrid system will allow.  Sure, in stop-and-go traffic, I'm sure it'll really shine, but other hybrids have proven to be a disappointment overall in real world driving fuel consumption.

Kudos to Lexus for giving us the technology and it's a great first step... but if it were my money, I think I'd probably go for the GS 430 or 550i first.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

5200lb vehicles are not "green".

If they had used their obvious engineering talents to make a composite and alloy GS that weighed in at 3000lbs, then I would have been impressed.

[Mike]

Green vehicle?  Ridiculous.  Why doesn't the author quote the actual fuel mileage?  Anyone who's followed the hybird scam knows these vehicles simply don't acheive anywhere near their claimed or Transport Canada mileage.  The same goes for the emissions which are measured at the same time.

[Howswedeitis]

Firstly the styling of this car is nothing special and is only a small improvement on the previous generation GS. To my mind, Lexus missed the mark here and considering the resources behind the Lexus brand it highlights something really lacking in terms of figuring out what consumers in this cars price range look for.
It's no wonder then why if not for their RX "4x4" they would be nowhere in terms of sales.
As for the hybrid aspect, I think it's a joke frankly to say this car would be any more efficient than
a lighter vehicle with an efficient internal combustion engine. I wonder again what the life of that battery pack is...5 years tops? I can only imagine what that sucker will cost to replace. This car is a marketing ploy to boost the brands image since their cars based on their own merits certainly can't do it! This car will not sell well at all.

[G0dspd]

This

If they had used their obvious engineering talents to make a composite and alloy GS that weighed in at 3000lbs, then I would have been impressed.

Sure ... and it would have been 10 000$ more expensive and you would've said it's too much for an hybrid. 

Anyone who's followed the hybird scam knows these vehicles simply don't acheive anywhere near their claimed or Transport Canada mileage.

That's true in most cases but manufacturers are only starting to mass produce hybrids ... they're not the most efficient things on the road (still better than a petrol engine) but it's getting there.  These days, hybrids are more a status symbol ... whatever it takes to develop the technology I guess.

[a4_tom]

Not to start another hybrid vs diesel debate. But for vehicle for this size, uplevel luxury class (A6, E-Class, 5-Series). Diesel is a more sensible option for a vehicle of this caliber and weight. I am pretty sure an A6 4.2TDI will outperformaned and out fuel economy GS450h.

[jww]

Technology aside, Lexus still make some of the best cars on the road - period.

jww

[G0dspd]

Not to start another hybrid vs diesel debate. But for vehicle for this size, uplevel luxury class (A6, E-Class, 5-Series). Diesel is a more sensible option for a vehicle of this caliber and weight. I am pretty sure an A6 4.2TDI will outperformaned and out fuel economy GS450h.

Luxury cars and diesel don't mix (Passat is not luxury!) in NA and not that much in Europe ... you would have to make the PR department work overtime.    I'm not saying it's a bad idea (maybe someday) ... it's just reality.

[a4_tom]

But wasn't Mercedes E320 CDI can't make fast enough for market consumption? Even Mercedes Canada offers 10% lease rates with 63% residual value for 3 years, they still couldn't allocated enough.

[auto_enthusiast]

Technology aside, Lexus still make some of the best cars on the road - period.

jww

The are phenomenal cars in terms of quality/refinement/fit and finish, but they're too watered down/lacking in driving passion IMO.

[Prius]

meh.. My current tank is 4.1L/100km... that's not too far off the 4.0L/100km that TC said. I'm 180kms into the tank. My last tank was 4.4L/100km. w/e, hate all you want.

I think the GS450h is priced ok... in btwn the 300 and 430. It's quicker, cheaper and more fuel efficient than the 430 so why get the V8? Don't tell me luggage space cause you'd get the E55 AMG wagon instead 

Besides, if it's a performance hybrid, you guys say it's not efficient. If it's extremely efficient, you said it's too slow so face it, you're never happy.

Btw, 5200lbs is its GVW, not kerb weight.

Lastly, about the CVT. Ya, it seems like it's slow to react but really, the problem lies in that the battery provides assist first before the engine starts. Once it starts, the CVT revs the engine up. Toyota's done ok with the almost seamless transition between engine and battery. Now they need to work on getting the engine to spool up faster so when the driver nails it, there isn't a pause. If the engine's running before the driver accelerates hard, there'll be no "lag".

[rrocket]

Greg Wilson writes: "the new GS 450h is not only faster than its competitor's V8-powered luxury sedans..."

According to the July issue of Road &Track wherein they compare the GS450h to the 550i, the Bimmer was quicker, faster and the all-round far more sporting machine.

And despite the impressive torque figures, the CVT apparently is very slow to react making it feel less impressive than the torque should otherwise feel. 

In addition to the higher initial cost, you've also got sacrifice significant trunk space too and, given it's supposed to be a sport sedan, I wonder how much real-world savings the Hybrid system will allow.  Sure, in stop-and-go traffic, I'm sure it'll really shine, but other hybrids have proven to be a disappointment overall in real world driving fuel consumption.

Kudos to Lexus for giving us the technology and it's a great first step... but if it were my money, I think I'd probably go for the GS 430 or 550i first.

But in that article they also conceded that it wasn't apples to apples...the Bimmer was a stick.  And they said if the Bimmer was an autobox, the GS would walk it!  And the fuel savings over the standard gas model are pretty significant.  They managed 28MPG in combined driving, which is great for a car with that kind of power.  My GS400 averaged around 22MPG in mixed driving, so 28 is a pretty decent step up.  I'd buy this car in a blink.  My Lexus was the most reliable, well built, solid, superb car I've ever owned.  After you own a Lexus, every other car feels inferior.  Sometimes I wished I'd never owned the Lexus since it spolied me so much into understanding just how good a car can be.  It really has ruined car ownership for me...from here on in, it's only a Lexus for me...

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Luxury cars and diesel don't mix (Passat is not luxury!) in NA and not that much in Europe ... you would have to make the PR department work overtime.    I'm not saying it's a bad idea (maybe someday) ... it's just reality.

The E CDI is basically sold out here, and the MAJORITY of 7, S, Phaeton, A8, and soon XJ in Europe are diesels. Something like 75% of 5 and 7-Series are diesels in Europe (or Germany, at least).

I just did a quick search and found articles like this "In the UK, the biggest seller in the range is the 730d that accounts for 56 per cent of total 7 Series sales."
http://www.carpages.co.uk/bmw/bmw-7-series-part-1-29-01-05.asp

And "After all, its rival, the Mercedes S320 CDI, accounts for some 50 percent of S-Class sales."
http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=4063

I quite like the GS, and it finally looks more upscale yet sporty-different. Is kind of small and uninvolving though. Damn this thing is quick with only the V6 (I thought it had the V8 paired with the hybrid) but that trunk space is miniscule. People are buying into hybrids, and if they offer reduced emissions with similar or better fuel economy, that is an achievement.

[Prius]

The thing about diesels in Europe is that diesel fuel is cheaper than petrol and for the luxury cars, something about the company car tax so there's two reasons to buy a diesel over a petrol-powered version. Most of the diesels are the smaller engined ones anyway which, I suppose, is adequate especially since there's probably a similar sized petrol-powered version and that'll be slower than the diesel version (e.g. XJ6.. do they still make the S280?)

[G0dspd]

I just did a quick search and found articles like this "In the UK, the biggest seller in the range is the 730d that accounts for 56 per cent of total 7 Series sales."
http://www.carpages.co.uk/bmw/bmw-7-series-part-1-29-01-05.asp

And "After all, its rival, the Mercedes S320 CDI, accounts for some 50 percent of S-Class sales."
http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=4063

Interesting articles (even if they're 2-4 years old).  BMW/MB with diesel engine are also the cheaper models of the line and the price of fuel in Europe is a big incentive.  I don't know if it would translate into the same thing here in NA.

I thought the E320CDI inventory was limited this year ... kinda of a test to see how it would do in NA. (maybe it was last year)

[safristi]

I heard it's a "CLASS THING!!!!".....