Topic: One word: Gomery

[sterling]

The world works on perks... I'm sure Jeff wines and dines his clients...).

Surely you're not saying politicians and their cronies stealing tax money is the same as a private individual or company spending their own money on clients?

The corruption in this government is all too real. This was not a cost overrun or just a controversial use of taxpayer money (e.g. gun registry). This was out and out theft of hundreds of millions of dollars. This is not in question. HUndreds of millions stolen and funneled straight into Liberal friendly pockets and the Liberal party itself. 

To say that the Conservatives or whoever would be just as bad is just voter laziness. To just give up and accept the outright theft of your money can't be an alternative.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I don't think it's right, but was just a point I reflected on. Scandals and bribes and corruption are not good things, and we shouldn't stand for them, but I think that's known now and will be less likely to happen again.

Politicians don't make tonnes of money... without some perks, or perks to give others (I still laugh thinking about those golf balls), not much fun to the job.

Anyhow, spending should be tightened up and checks and balances should be implemented MUCH tighter, but while $350M or whatever it was sounds like a lot to you or I - and is to the people who benefited from it, it's not a whole lot in the scheme of the government. Or when taking the entire country's health into account. I think the Liberals have ran the country well and little things notwithstanding I'm happy with everything (minus the pushing back of low sulphur diesel timelines which I learned today - if they were serious about reducing emissions they would have kept the deadline). I doubt any of the other parties could run the government so well, with such fiscal responsibility, balance, and social issue compassion.

That was all 

[paulk]

I don't think it's right, but was just a point I reflected on. Scandals and bribes and corruption are not good things, and we shouldn't stand for them, but I think that's known now and will be less likely to happen again.

This is wishful thinking, in my view.  Unless there is some form of discipline or payback from the voters (and there won't be, because the liberals will win again), nothing is going to change.

Politicians don't make tonnes of money... without some perks, or perks to give others (I still laugh thinking about those golf balls), not much fun to the job.

This is just not true.  Politicians make significant amounts of money in this country.  The base salary of an MP is $114,000 (counting allowances but not office budgets and "research grants"), of which 20% of that is non-taxable.  That's significantly higher than the average salary, after expenses, of medical doctors in Ottawa.  Cabinet members have a base salary of $168,000.  There are very few professions in Canada (surgeons, federal judges) that have a base salary even close to that.

When you take into account their gold-plated pension plan (after six years in Ottawa they never need to work another day in their life if they so choose), politicians do indeed make a very significant amount of money.  Add in the lucrative consulting and lobbying positions they get after they leave parliament, and it's nearly mind-boggling.

And don't forget the various perks.  Cabinet ministers, including Paul Martin, get private healthcare, in the US if necessary, paid for by the taxpayer.  No waiting lists like the rest of us.

[mdxtasy]

Anyhow, spending should be tightened up and checks and balances should be implemented MUCH tighter, but while $350M or whatever it was sounds like a lot to you or I - and is to the people who benefited from it, it's not a whole lot in the scheme of the government. Or when taking the entire country's health into account.

Stealing is still stealing no matter how much you took SAM.  Whether it's $1M or $10M or $100M...it's still money that didn't belong to them and was funnelled improperly. 

[CR-V/Tucson/Rav4]

Green would be an option, and a voice that should be heard, but unfortuately unless a green riding has a chance to be elected it's a bit of a wasted vote as the PC and Libs are so close and the PC advocates are loud and out there.

Argh. Pet peeve time. There is no such thing as a wasted vote. Voting against someone, rather than who you actually want to vote for does far more harm than good. It skews elections, and we end up with results that simply don't affect the feelings of the populace. We're turning into a stupid two party US type system because of this crap.

It's also a self fulfilling prophecy. The Green's don't win any seats because of all the folks out there thinking exactly the way you do. If they'd actually vote for the party they actually want, they'd magically find some of their choices elected.

I don't care who you vote for, but please, vote for the actual party you want.

[Snowman]

"The base salary of an MP is $114,000”     I think MP’s should make $400k a year. This way you could attract real business people who and weed out the stupid facks.


$144k per year?….I could not live on that. I hope doctors make more than $168k a year…fack me.

[mdxtasy]

"The base salary of an MP is $114,000”   I think MP’s should make $400k a year. This way you could attract real business people who and weed out the stupid facks.


$144k per year?….I could not live on that. I hope doctors make more than $168k a year…fack me.

$144k or $168K....that's a lot of money no matter how you slice it.  Plus some of that is not taxable makes it a larger number to us tax paying folks.....Making $400K a year to be an MP?  Not sure about that one.  Throwing money at a problem isn't always the solution. 

[paulk]

$144k per year?….I could not live on that. I hope doctors make more than $168k a year…fack me.

Are you serious?  After expenses, the average salary of a physician in Canada is roughly half that.  Alberta has the most comprehensive online salary data:
http://www.alis.gov.ab.ca/wageinfo/Content/RequestAction.asp?aspAction=GetWageDetail&format=html&RegionID=20&NOC=3112
The average medical doctor in Alberta earns $73,000/year.  I read an article in the Ottawa Citizen last year giving slightly higher numbers for physicians in Ottawa (mid-$80k).  When the Canadian Medical Association talks about how doctors in this country earn less than plumbers, they're not joking.  (Surgeons do better, of course.)

Politicians are very, very well paid in this country, relative to other professions.

[Snowman]

"The average medical doctor in Alberta earns $73,000/year." WTF…Wiffy makes more with a college diploma form the Haileybury School of Mines. Something is not right here.

“Throwing money at a problem isn't always the solution”                Money fixes everything. You IT people have no concept of reality. Come and work in the Resource or Manufacturing industry.

[SeasideLass]

I believe very little of what Chretien says on this matter, although he must be privately amused that misappropriations on his watch may bring done the man he dislikes immensely - Paul Martin.

I will hate to see an election soon as there is no one to vote for - I can't vote for the Tories as long as Harper is leader (and maybe longer than that); I can't vote NDP even if I think Jack Layton is the best of the bunch, and how does one continue to vote Liberal? What a mess.

Of course Chretien is to blame, not directly maybe, but still to blame as he was the Big Kahuna. He got the power and the glory when it was there, he has to take the heat for the screwups.

Good thing we don't get all the government we pay for....

Well said!

[johngenx]

$144k per year?….I could not live on that. I hope doctors make more than $168k a year…fack me.

Most Canadians live on a fraction of that.  I propose that MP's earn what the "average" Canadian makes.

[mdxtasy]

“Throwing money at a problem isn't always the solution”                Money fixes everything. You IT people have no concept of reality. Come and work in the Resource or Manufacturing industry.

WHAT!  Work in the resource or manufacturing industry?  Nooooo....there's not enough money in it to make that switch.    

Didn't the domestic automakers throw more and more money at the unions to keep them from striking?  So what did that fix?   

[safristi]

Where is the HIPPO patree whan ya NEED THEM..... ...Bottom feeding with the REST of the scum.....can't we claim Chapter 11 fer the POls in Ottawa and start again....I'm availablle weekends....!!!!!

[02Jetta]

Free trade, Gun Registration, ADSCAM, softwood lumber, BSE, the list goes on!! I don't know the total cost we as taxpayers have been billed for but it makes me sick. I have better things to spend my annual tax bill of $40K on than putting it in some rich guys pocket to pass under the table to his buddy!!! How many times do you guys need to get burned before you need change?? As an Albertan I am concerned about our natural resources, when is Martin gonna grow some BALLS and start throttling back the natural gas, the water, the electricity, the lumber to the US and start conserving for Canada's future?? Instead lets sell 75% of our resources to the US so we are paying $12/GJ for natural gas instead of $3/GJ, $1/litre for fuel instead of $.05/litre like the oil rich countries in the east!! Where was Martin when our ranchers were going bankrupt (BSE)? He never stood up for them, just let the US keep the border closed without a real fight and then we find out that the origin of BSE was from the US. We may be cowboy hat wearin' oil rig workers but at least we have balls and money!! I agree Harper may not be leader material but from what I've seen from the Liberals for many years I gotta say anything is better right now!! I'm definetly not a political genius but I hate seeing my hard earned tax dollars being wasted so badly!!
As for private health care, doesn't seem all bad to me. Maybe if people have to pay to go to the emergency/clinic they won't go unless it is necessary? Recently I went to the emergency with my girlfriend, she was violently ill, basically vomitting in the emergency and we waited 3 hours to see a doctor. The poor triage nurse was basically running to tend to different people!! All because the people who didn't need to be at emergency couldn't wait to hit the walk in clinic the next day. You don't see sports figures waiting to see specialists if they get injured do you?? Private health care already exists just not on a large scale!!
Needless to say I'm ready for change!! Can't get any worse than it is now.

[safristi]

I'm with Paulk & jetta on this one......also..it's NOT the money ..it's THE POWER..yes a cliche but it does corrupt and absolute POWER as out P.M HAS is dangerous....he appoints "ANYONE" hello folks anyone"Hence nobodies like Gagliano et al) become BIG WIGS...judges,crown Corp patronages...hell Chretien made Marie Antoinette look like a piker...let HIM EAT and POUND SAND fer his own ego satisfaction(and LEGAL BILLS) I hope he is hounded into poverty with his desire to "REDEEM HIS NAME!!!"....our Wussy whipped PRESS is giving him a FREE GET OUT OF JAIL PASS.........we need ta import some of those ballsy ,bullshittin,rake mongering US Liberal Press DOGS fer a few weeks(that's enuf..but at least it would level the playin field).......The PM and a FEW Cabinet members RULE US worse than Mugabe rules Zimbabwe......whew  .. are the PUBS open YET!!!!!!!

[ovr50]

02jetta - some of what you state, I can agree with; BUT do you really think that Harper is the answer? I don't. Harper would cozy up with US more than the Libs do, and the resources would be gone South faster than they do now. I see Harper & Co MORE likely to sell off Canadian resources than put the brakes on. Besides, living in AB, you should know that the source of much of your wealth these days is due to just exactly what you speak against. Harper cares little about the softwood lumber issue as he has been quite quiet for quite a while now on that issue. And while I have no serious problems with some private health care, that is not a majority feeling in this country.

You say anything is better than what we have - I'm not so sure that the answer is the Tories - and that's sad, I think.

[sterling]

Harper needs more time to prove himself a capable thief and liar before he'lll be seen as a Liberal-quality leader.

This whole country suffers from battered wife syndrome. It's easier to stay with the status quo and take a shot to the teeth regularly than to risk something different.

[ovr50]

And that's even sadder - when you go to the polls to vote against a party and have to vote for another party that you really don't want to but must do to get rid of the first party that you are mad at. You watch - the Tories campaign won't be about what they will do to fix things, it will all negative about how rotten the Libs are. The Tories have had and will have (if they win) their share of corruption and scandals also - seems to be the nature of the beast. Meh...

[Snowman]

Harper is intellectually incapable of running a country. He can’t even keep his party together. For the PC to form a legitimate contender the y need a leader with charisma along with intellect. The last PM we had with both was PET.

[sterling]

Charisma will not be tolerated in these pc times. The merest hint of charisma is guaranteed to be offensive to some ninny.

Oh yes, someone like PET is just what we need. The man was/is hated by half the country. In that case, perhaps Harper is PM material. He'd just be hated by the other half.